Burkini Controversy

Attempting to apply reason to hysteria.


CliqueBait says:

Where on Earth did you get that pic?! Link.

Alexander Williams says:

There is actually a really easy solution, one which upholds the maximal power of human choice with the expectation of human capability and infringes on as few human wills as possible:

Do nothing.

Sometimes do nothing is the least harmful choice that you can make, and not surprisingly it is the one solution that activists hate the most. After all, if something is not being stirred up, made different, turned head over heels, injecting chaos, being put upon – how can you ever have said to have affected what’s going on? Activism is about ego, after all; about being able to claim that you’ve changed the world.

If the hideous power of the State is brought to bear to limit the choices of fair citizens, no matter what reason you can find to disagree with that choice, you have sunk to authoritarianism. If you have to sink to authoritarianism to engage the social change you want, you have become that which you hate, and which you should hate – and in trying to protect another’s principles you’ve given up your own. If that kind of hypocrisy appeals to you, well then… You’re on the right path.

If you truly believe that human individuals are capable of making decisions for themselves and should make decisions for themselves, you have to accept that they can choose for good reasons or ill to wear burqas, bikinis, birkinis, Speedo slings, or whatever the other hot eye-searing nightmare is this year. Thus is the nature of choice. The freedom to choose to do anything except the one thing you don’t like is no kind of freedom at all because that one thing that you don’t like is the one thing that they wish to choose to do. All impositions by the State from a position of authority are equal. There are no little injustices.

Does it seem just to you to keep someone from pursuing something that evidently pleases them just because you believe their decision is influenced unduly by methods you don’t agree with? Think long and hard about that question, because eventually it will come back around and be pointed at you. I think you can already figure out at least a dozen ways that are inevitable. How would you like the question to be resolved when it comes to you?

I think you’ll agree that the best solution, maybe the only solution that respects the individual as an agent of choice responsible for their own lives, is for the State to have no part in that decision, neither cultivating one-half or punishing the other. To do either is an infringement of the authority of the individual over their own lives.

Eschew authoritarianism. Even when it’s unpopular to promote freedom. Maybe especially so.

harkenrebirth says:

The thing is that being a nun is an actual job, calling, a duty or whatever you call it. They are also confined to a monestary. Not running around everywhere. I have yet to see a nun walking around town or a priest in their garb. Muslims on the other hand call it their religious clothing, yet they walk around dressed in it everywhere. Not in their mosques. But everywhere. That isnt what you use religious garb for, that is what you use clothing for. So they cant just go around calling it their religious garb. As much as we can call a nun dress our religious garb. Since we dont wear it, you dont see a christian woman dressed in nun clothing. Nuns dress in nun clothing. Not regular christians, but really really religious christians. Which makes the wholle burka thing so weird. Its not a simple religious clothing, its a radical religious clothing. They dont have the choice, they are forced. Why? CUS THEY ARE FUCKING KILLED IF THEY DONT OBEY!!! Have you ever seen a christian woman being forced to dress as a nun… or else she is killed. Nope. Never. Maybe 1000 years ago. But not today. And this is the WEST.. THis is EUROPE. If they want to wear their religious clothing, they can do so in the middle east. The place that they ran away from. So im not accepting them wearing burkas here. This isnt a muslim country or continent. THis is technicly a christian contintent. or whatever you can call Europe. Christian is the main religious, but that religion isnt really dictating HOW we live. We just do our thing. Muslims LIVE based on their Book. They hold THAT above any law. That isnt how we do things here. And if they use the bullshit of “You arent tollerant” Well. If we went over there to islamic countries. They wouldnt accept us practicing OUR religion freely. They will FORCE us to obey their laws. Women wouldnt be allowed to NOT dress how they want. They would be forced to wear a Burka. Even if THAT isnt part of your religion. Imagin that. Burka isnt a religious thing. Its all about showing who has the power. Its about showing that Islam is more powerfull, is stronger, is more feared, than any other religion. Why else would women wear burkas. Its not cool with one of them on their head… its HOTER. THey have it tight around their head and it heats them up more than others. Cus they have their face uncovered, now imagin those that have their face covered… Imagin how warm it is under those. And women have to endure it. How far would these people go for their religion, especialy when their religion hasnt really done anyting good for them, only horrible things. They have been at war with each other for 1000 years…… why? Cus of their OWN definition of islam. Even today. They hate each other cus of petty things like that. Whille we sorted those things around…. 600 years ago. Or more. When the church lost most of its power in the West. But in islamic countries, religion just gained more and more power. That is why they are so fucking backwards and depend on the west for everything. FFS Their priests believe that social media gives women who post pictures cancer. HE HAS SEEN IT!!… or that the world is flat and the sun circles around us. Can you imagin how backwards their knowledge on things are. And they are coming here, runing from war. Thinking they can be doctors, when these mtoherfuckers, most of them wont even wash their hands before doing surgery on someone… cus its against their religion… I dont want filthy hands with germs ont hem, considering these people washt heir ass after shiting… WITH THEIR HAND… the right hand if im not wrong. Some even complained that they arent allowed to remove their religious clothing at their jobs, that for a muslim woman to be a dentist, she can wear her burka, niqab or whatever else shit they wear, but to wear SLEAVES…. on their arms.. so their clothing doesnt fall forward on people. These same people who fucking drink camel piss and call it a fucking remedy for illness. These same people who fuckin brought with them disease that has been destroyed in Europe.. for the last 50 years. Now they are back, Thanks to these migrants who dont know what fuckin hygiene is or medicine. They only seem to know about witchcraft… its how they call it.. i call it superstition. Same thing with black people in Africa.. backwards people who are also adopting islam. Who also believe in fucking babies to get rid of aids, to kill Albinos, human Albinos, cut them up and in some cases also eat them. To get magical powers. Are these the people we want in the West? In Civilisation? No.. You fucking exterminate them. Cus what is the fuckin point in keeping savages and people who arent up to our level of intelect and civilisation alive in 2016. Its just mind bogling how “tollerant” people are to these people. Who rape, kill, destroy suburbs are allowed to get away with. yet the media keeps calling them “Poor refugees, poor migrants” When they should be calling them actual barbarians, savages, degenerate and criminals…. Not to mention they would be considered Traitors, since most of them RAN from WAR. THAT THEY STARTED!!!

AGrayPhantom says:

Wait, what? I really don’t understand what the point of this. Why would the police make someone to remove clothing at the beach? If she’s going to be stupid enough to swim in something that’ll bring risk to herself, then let her. Seriously.

Anthony Valterra says:

I don’t disagree with the substance of the argument but I will disagree with the structure. Third wave feminists use the exact same argument against women who, voluntarily of their own will, are involved in any of the sex trades. They argue that even if most or the majority of women are willingly involved in these acts that there are a large number who are coerced, raised to believe that this is acceptable (or victims of abuse as a child), or forced into it by life circumstances. Thus no woman should be allowed to work in the sex industry.

Personally, I find this argument frightening. It strips people of individual choice and denies them freedom of will. It sets one group of people up as arbiters of another group’s minds. On the other hand we do that already with psychology. Slippery slope?

I think I prefer Sid’istic Igtheist’s argument. Wearing a burkini is a symbol of women’s oppression and in this culture expressing that belief in public is unacceptable. It would be similar to no Nazi flags in Germany or no public cross burning in America.

Barry Desborough says:

Hemmed in by social influences from two opposing sides that mean that you cannot enjoy the seaside. If you have kids, you cannot take them to the seaside. You stay indoors. Various people, according to their own diverse and incompatible hangups, don’t want to see you with, or alternatively without, a burkini. Just accept that nobody gives a shit about you.

Sid'istic Atheist says:

Degrees of social acceptance and security issues.
The security aspect is widely known. Therefore not worth the re-telling.
The social and societal acceptance issue is subjective, depending on your own personal code of acceptable conduct.
If Satanists suddenly started indoctrinating their believers with the ideology that all their female followers were not worthy of any respect and walked them around our streets like dogs. Wearing next to no clothes and being dragged in an obviously hurtful manner on a leash, whilst on their hands and knees.
*Would it matter that those women truly believed that they should be treated as such. And simply accepted their plight..*
NO! There would be a public outcry to stop these Satanists from treating their female followers that way…
We would respect the beliefs of the women, but insist that when out and about, amongst non believers or believers of different dogmas. They would have to be treated as equals. As our society demands

*When in Rome*
I don’t want my daughter to walk around the streets of Manchester. Seeing indoctrinated oppressed women being treated as second class citizens..
Just like an Arabic man doesn’t want his own daughter to see scantily clad western women walking around the streets of Dubai. As his society demands

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